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Don't even ask ... here's a thread off of talk.origins where somebody tries to make the argument that the first humans must have been 90 feet tall ... WTF?! Anyway, here's the text of the (long) conversation: Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against their "Epicurean" counterparts. The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to travel through. "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the pre-nutrition age." As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious absurdity to this myth." [------ END EXCERPT ------] This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said something similar: The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that are too closely related? "Paul" news:abed11$hc2vo$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > " Jeff Laventure" > news:ScyC8.397$Cn7.58503452@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > > "Paul" > > news:abdqkl$hoa98$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL > > > > Taditional science has determined man has been getting taller, not > shorter. > > As is obvious if you should ever tour a medieval castle... Or even look at > US civil war uniforms... > > Or have *any* knowledge whatsoever of archaeology... Actually, the trend isn't as clear-cut as that. *Average* heights haven't changed that dramatically. Keep in mind that the armour in museums and castles is missing many of the straps, fasteners and other accoutrements that it would have had when actually worn. See http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=IaUQEGAWuiD3Ewcy%40jackalope.demon.co. uk and other messages in the thread (unfortunately, I wasn't able to track down the earlier discussion referenced in this one). In article >I'm thinking more along the lines of steps, door widths and ceiling heights. > >Older castles in britain are actually difficult for an average person to If _you_ had to make the castle, then you'd make it as small as possible too. All that stone isn't light. On Thu, 09 May 2002 19:47:32 -0400, Paul wrote: > "Alan Barclay" > news:1020987187.472256@elaine.furryape.com... >> In article > wrote: >> >I'm thinking more along the lines of steps, door widths and ceiling > heights. >> > >> >Older castles in britain are actually difficult for an average person >> >to >> >> If _you_ had to make the castle, then you'd make it as small as >> possible too. All that stone isn't light. >> >> > Ehh... No... Big castle.. Small steps.... Low ceilings.. Tight > passageways that you have to bend down to go through... Yeah, *some* of > this is due to defensive needs and heating needs... However old Spanish > missions in the US have the same traits.. > > Also you can see many examples of medieval clothing *and* armour etc... > The average height was lots lower that it is now... Don't forget that there are physiologic barriers to people being extremely tall, as well...annoying little details like pumping blood to the brain, returning blood from the feet, bone mass necessary to support that much weight, etc. -- Mark A > this space intentionally left blank < "Abdullah" > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > him) said something similar: > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > are too closely related? So when I get to Paradise and get my 21 virgins I'm like 90 feet tall and have a 9 foot schlong? Ouch!!! "Abdullah" news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... [snip unbelievable stupidity] yes, just look at all the 90 foot human skeletons in our museums...LOL Adam Marczyk wrote: > Abdullah > news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... > > [snip] > > >>"Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected >>institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human >>population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly >>unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of >>groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man >>could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of >>transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the >>pre-nutrition age." >> >>As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took >>place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man >>would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His >>calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it >>was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be >>plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the >>least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" >>Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to >>the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious >>absurdity to this myth." >> > > Whether an entire population could descend from two individuals is a function of > genetic diversity and has precisely zero to do with the physical size of either > of those individuals. Bend over backwards all you want, this is utterly > ridiculous as a supposed proof of Islam. > > -- > And I want to conquer the world, > give all the idiots a brand new religion, > put an end to poverty, uncleanliness and toil, > promote equality in all of my decisions... > --Bad Religion, "I Want to Conquer the World" > > http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843 > > Whew, thanks. I thought I was losing my marbles there for a few minutes. Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when they came up with this nonsense? Chris Bobby D. Bryant > On Thu, 09 May 2002 11:21:15 -0600, Chris Thompson wrote: > > > Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds > > when they came up with this nonsense? > > Is it really so different from the kind of thing we hear here all the > time? [NB: Bobby is referring to talk.origins] > Nope. It's still theology trying to explain what science already has, only without evidence. -- John Wilkins Occasionally entertaining others On Thu, 09 May 2002 14:42:25 -0600, Brian Westley wrote: > Chris Thompson > .... >>Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when >>they came up with this nonsense? > > Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't > have the strength to stand up. Homo couchpotatensis? Shouldn't even have to get up to reach the 'fridge. Bobby Bryant Austin, Texas Robert Parson > In article > Brian Westley > >Chris Thompson > >.... > >>Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when > >>they came up with this nonsense? > > > >Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't > >have the strength to stand up. > > You have forgotten to take into account the Reduced Felt Effect of Gravity. > How did they get along with less felt? What were their hats made of? -- John Wilkins Occasionally entertaining others On Fri, 10 May 2002 04:06:43 +0000 (UTC), John Wilkins wrote: > Robert Parson > >> > >> >Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't >> >have the strength to stand up. >> >> You have forgotten to take into account the Reduced Felt Effect of Gravity. >> > How did they get along with less felt? What were their hats made of? With no felt there would be no pool tables at the pub, and hence no physicists, so they could just ignore gravity. cheers, Euan. "Abdullah" > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > their "Epicurean" counterparts. [snip] > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > are too closely related? This makes no scientific sense: "weaker" due to genetic interbreading does not necessarily mean "shorter". I did a Google search on "Shlomi Lesser" and Hofesh V'Mada. There is no record of either, except on three web pages, werein the above passage is printed verbaim. Rabbi Dovid Brown is evidently who Abdullah says he is. Mitchell Coffey "Abdullah" > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > their "Epicurean" counterparts. > > The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one > question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one > point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the > esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according > to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic > research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of > parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the > strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to > travel through. > > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > pre-nutrition age." > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > absurdity to this myth." > > [------ END EXCERPT ------] > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > him) said something similar: > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > are too closely related? I can't help but wonder how it is no intermediate sized humans have been found. You'd think a few would have died or buried in such a way as to be preserved enough for archeologists or paleontoligists to have found and studied. Hmmmmm. Curiouser and curiouser. Roger aa#1477 diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > "Abdullah" > > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > > their "Epicurean" counterparts. > > > > The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one > > question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one > > point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the > > esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according > > to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic > > research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of > > parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the > > strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to > > travel through. > > > > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > > pre-nutrition age." > > > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > > absurdity to this myth." > > > > [------ END EXCERPT ------] > > > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > > him) said something similar: > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > > are too closely related? > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > fossils have ever been found? Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. On Thu, 09 May 2002 16:08:44 -0600, freehand wrote: > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. At that height, JJ shouldn't have needed to jump. Bobby Bryant Austin, Texas "Diarmid Logan" news:6d220a72.0205100716.23fa56ae@posting.google.com... > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > > diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > > > fossils have ever been found? > > > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a human? I knew as soon as I read Freehand's post that this was going to happen. "Paul" news:abh1b3$i53ka$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > "Derek Stevenson" > news:abguhj$i0eam$1@ID-139629.news.dfncis.de... > > "Diarmid Logan" > > news:6d220a72.0205100716.23fa56ae@posting.google.com... > > > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message > > news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > > > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > > > > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > > > > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > > > > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > > > > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > > > > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > > > > > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a > > human? > > > > I knew as soon as I read Freehand's post that this was going to happen. > > > LOL... Face it some people have no sense of humour... Or are aware that there are creationists who've said equally ludicrous things and *meant* it. We often remark on t.o. that creationism is impossible to parody for just this reason. "Derek Stevenson" > "Diarmid Logan" > news:6d220a72.0205100716.23fa56ae@posting.google.com... > > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message > news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > > > diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message > news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > > > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > > > > fossils have ever been found? > > > > > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > > > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > > > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > > > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > > > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > > > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > > > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a > human? > > I knew as soon as I read Freehand's post that this was going to happen. Reel him in slowly, slowly... Quick, hand me the net! "Abdullah" news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... They really allow you, in "The Ward", to have access to a computer? > It is a belief of [some Muslims] that man got smaller as life > went on. Peace brother, I) Mitochondria There are no 'Hadeeth' on the topic of Genetic bottle-necks. Your logical jump involves a) accepting the Doctors views WITHOUT support from other sources. b) accepting his off-hand remark regarding the general size c) ignoring OTHER hypothesis regarding the evident genetic bottle-neck d) ignoring the lack of ANY fossil remains of humanoid giants of 90' Mitrochondrial genetic bottle necks were discovered during studies of human genetics. (The mitocondria, a major sub-system of the cell, contains its own genetic material; and these genes are NOT based on the DNA stored in the cell nucleus. At conception, the egg that will grow to become the fetus already contains mitochondrial genes -- the mother's.) Thus, mitrochondrial genetic material IS NOT subject to the transformations that nuclear genetic material undergo at conception. This forms the ASSUMPTION that any changes to mitochondrial genetic matrial occurs only due to mutations, which this reasoning asserts, and thus expected to be subject to statistical analysis. This analysis apparently indicates that at about 70,000 years ago, only a handful (5000) individuals actually managed to pass their genes to the next generation -- I.e. the few billion hairy bipeds currently abusing this planet are apparently ALL descended from these 5000 few. That is the bottleneck. Note that in this view of the (bottleneck) phenomena, it is NOT asserted that prior to the 5000 there were fewer humans still. This view asserts that a catastrophic event WHIPED OUT all but 5000 of our hairy anscestors. (And no, they were not giants.) II) Cration Myths And 'Hadeeth' is certainly NOT the only source of creation myths and the existence of 'giants': 1) Genesis 2) "In nearly every mythology, which after all is ancient history, giants as well as the first couple play an important part. " 3) "The Celtic myth of a great battle between Gods and Giants was probably originally just a battle between two tribes in one of which the men were rather taller. So over the years giants have become enormous people, 60 feet tall." And finally, please note that there is NO mention of giants in The Qur'an. Peace. "Abdullah" (Is that Abdullah or Dull Abah?) > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. Excellent - now all you have to do is find the fossils to prove your case. otherwise I guess all you have is a bunch of bullshit fairytales.... Budikka On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:04:44 -0600, Joubin wrote: > This view asserts that a catastrophic event WHIPED OUT all but 5000 of > our hairy anscestors. (And no, they were not giants.) This is beyond reply. Bobby Bryant Austin, Texas "Abdullah" [snip marginally interesting coincidental relationship between Islam scripture and scientific guess] This guy oughta meet Boatwright. They'd have a lot to talk about, dontcha think? Diarmid Logan wrote: > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > >>diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... >> >>>"Abdullah" >>> >>>>Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 >>>>issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada >>>>Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. >>>> >>>>[------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] >>>> >>>>TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, >>>>Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh >>>>V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a >>>>heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of >>>>life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, >>>>came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against >>>>their "Epicurean" counterparts. >>>> >>>>The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one >>>>question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one >>>>point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the >>>>esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according >>>>to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic >>>>research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of >>>>parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the >>>>strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to >>>>travel through. >>>> >>>>"Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected >>>>institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human >>>>population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly >>>>unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of >>>>groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man >>>>could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of >>>>transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the >>>>pre-nutrition age." >>>> >>>>As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took >>>>place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man >>>>would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His >>>>calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it >>>>was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be >>>>plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the >>>>least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" >>>>Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to >>>>the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious >>>>absurdity to this myth." >>>> >>>>[------ END EXCERPT ------] >>>> >>>>This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed >>>>Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic >>>>research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if >>>>the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years >>>>before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon >>>>him) said something similar: >>>> >>>>The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He >>>>created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen >>>>to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting >>>>(salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu >>>>Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa >>>>Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels >>>>added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person >>>>who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). >>>>People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, >>>>Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. >>>> >>>> >>>>Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine >>>>revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall >>>>when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life >>>>went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May >>>>Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as >>>>"bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that >>>>are too closely related? >>>> >>> >>>If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human >>>fossils have ever been found? >>> >>Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern >>intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into >>the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how >>the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our >>Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that >>Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. >> > > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a human? > > See that bulge in freehand's cheek? That's his tongue. Chris "Derek Stevenson" news:abhbho$hpdpd$1@ID-139629.news.dfncis.de... > "Paul" > news:abh1b3$i53ka$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > "Derek Stevenson" > > news:abguhj$i0eam$1@ID-139629.news.dfncis.de... > > > "Diarmid Logan" > > > news:6d220a72.0205100716.23fa56ae@posting.google.com... > > > > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message > > > news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > > > > > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified > Giant-modern > > > > > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones > into > > > > > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice > how > > > > > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In > our > > > > > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > > > > > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > > > > > > > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a > > > human? > > > > > > I knew as soon as I read Freehand's post that this was going to happen. > > > > > LOL... Face it some people have no sense of humour... > > Or are aware that there are creationists who've said equally ludicrous > things and *meant* it. > > We often remark on t.o. that creationism is impossible to parody for just > this reason. > Generally a fair comment... However surely even they wouldn't use the jumpin jehosaphat bit.... And, yes I've known of few of this ilk myself... "Derek Stevenson" news:abguhj$i0eam$1@ID-139629.news.dfncis.de... > "Diarmid Logan" > news:6d220a72.0205100716.23fa56ae@posting.google.com... > > kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message > news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > > > diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message > news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > > > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > > > > fossils have ever been found? > > > > > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > > > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > > > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > > > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > > > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > > > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > > > > You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a > human? > > I knew as soon as I read Freehand's post that this was going to happen. > LOL... Face it some people have no sense of humour... kermit@alexmo.com (freehand) wrote in message news:<12c1ca13.0205091414.3fc999b8@posting.google.com>... > diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > > "Abdullah" > > > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > > > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > > > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > > > > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > > > > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > > > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > > > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > > > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > > > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > > > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > > > their "Epicurean" counterparts. > > > > > > The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one > > > question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one > > > point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the > > > esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according > > > to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic > > > research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of > > > parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the > > > strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to > > > travel through. > > > > > > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > > > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > > > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > > > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > > > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > > > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > > > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > > > pre-nutrition age." > > > > > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > > > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > > > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > > > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > > > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > > > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > > > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > > > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > > > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > > > absurdity to this myth." > > > > > > [------ END EXCERPT ------] > > > > > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > > > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > > > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > > > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > > > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > > > him) said something similar: > > > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > > > are too closely related? > > > > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > > fossils have ever been found? > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. You really think that the skeleton of a T-Rex is similar to that of a human? "freehand" > diarmidlogan@yahoo.com (Diarmid Logan) wrote in message news:<6d220a72.0205090812.47ffdb13@posting.google.com>... > > "Abdullah" > > > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > > > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > > > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > > > > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > > > > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > > > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > > > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > > > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > > > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > > > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > > > their "Epicurean" counterparts. > > > > > > The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one > > > question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one > > > point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the > > > esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according > > > to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic > > > research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of > > > parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the > > > strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to > > > travel through. > > > > > > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > > > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > > > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > > > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > > > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > > > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > > > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > > > pre-nutrition age." > > > > > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > > > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > > > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > > > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > > > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > > > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > > > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > > > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > > > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > > > absurdity to this myth." > > > > > > [------ END EXCERPT ------] > > > > > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > > > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > > > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > > > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > > > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > > > him) said something similar: > > > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > > > are too closely related? > > > > > > If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human > > fossils have ever been found? > > Many of those so-called dinosaurs are actually modified Giant-modern > intermediates. The Godless Evilutionarians often take these bones into > the back rooms to "Study" them for years. Voila! A T-Rex. Notice how > the truth-loving ID researchers are never given access to them. In our > Holy Light of Truth College of Paleontology we have determined that > Jumping Jehosaphat was approximately 42 cubits tall, or 63 feet. > Wow, I bet it was quite a sight when he "Jumped." Raptor514 "Abdullah" > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > their "Epicurean" counterparts. > > The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one > question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one > point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the > esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according > to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic > research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of > parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the > strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to > travel through. > > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > pre-nutrition age." > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > absurdity to this myth." > > [------ END EXCERPT ------] > > This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they crushed > Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up with genetic > research that led them to calculate the size a first man would have to be if > the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! Note that 1400 years > before these learned men came to this conclusion, the Prophet (peace be upon > him) said something similar: > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > are too closely related? If humans were once 90 feet tall then how come no 90 foot tall human fossils have ever been found? "Abdullah" > Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September 2001 > issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal "Ha-Mada > Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments below. > > [------ BEGIN EXCERPT ------] > > TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, > Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh > V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a > heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of > life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, > came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against > their "Epicurean" counterparts. It is interesting that this popular science journal correctly identified the opponents of creationism as "Epicureans." Many people wrongly believe Epicureanism is a philosophy based on the pursuit of pleasure (eat, drink, and be merry). In fact it was a naturalistic philosophy that aimed at happiness, but happiness defined in a rather calm, staid way. Epicurus' most famous disciple was Lucretius, who wrote "De Rerum Natura", maybe the first and still the best set of arguments against deistic explanations for natural phenomena. > > Brian Westley > Chris Thompson > .... > >Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when > >they came up with this nonsense? > > Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't > have the strength to stand up. Kazmeier could! Tracy P. Hamilton wilkins@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) writes: > Robert Parson > > > In article > > Brian Westley > > >Chris Thompson > > >.... > > >>Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when > > >>they came up with this nonsense? > > > > > >Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't > > >have the strength to stand up. > > > > You have forgotten to take into account the Reduced Felt Effect > > of Gravity. > > > How did they get along with less felt? What were their hats made of? Velvet and sequins, reinforced with willow boughs. It was a strange era, though. The Earth was flat back then, and the Comet Neptune was hovering directly overhead, enabling dinosaurs and 90-foot Buddhas to grow to their full adult sizes. -- quadam autem die cum venissent filii Dei ut adsisterent coram Domino adfuit inter eos etiam Satan In article Brian Westley >Chris Thompson >.... >>Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when >>they came up with this nonsense? > >Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't >have the strength to stand up. You have forgotten to take into account the Reduced Felt Effect of Gravity. ------- Robert Chris Thompson .... >Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds when >they came up with this nonsense? Certainly not the square-cube law; a human 90 feet tall wouldn't have the strength to stand up. --- Merlyn LeRoy On Thu, 09 May 2002 11:21:15 -0600, Chris Thompson wrote: > Do you have any idea what was going through their (putative) minds > when they came up with this nonsense? Is it really so different from the kind of thing we hear here all the time? Bobby Bryant Austin, Texas Abdullah news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... [snip] > "Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected > institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human > population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly > unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of > groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man > could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of > transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the > pre-nutrition age." > > As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took > place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man > would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His > calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it > was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be > plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the > least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" > Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to > the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious > absurdity to this myth." Whether an entire population could descend from two individuals is a function of genetic diversity and has precisely zero to do with the physical size of either of those individuals. Bend over backwards all you want, this is utterly ridiculous as a supposed proof of Islam. -- And I want to conquer the world, give all the idiots a brand new religion, put an end to poverty, uncleanliness and toil, promote equality in all of my decisions... --Bad Religion, "I Want to Conquer the World" http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843 On Thu, 09 May 2002 10:07:38 -0400, lanny budd wrote: > "Abdullah" > news: >> Read the following excerpt from the English section of the September >> 2001 issue of the Hebrew-English Israeli popular science journal >> "Ha-Mada Ha-Yisraeli B'Angleet V'Ivreet." Then read the comments >> below. > > > >> This is interesting to me because while the biologists think they >> crushed Judaism, they actually confirmed Islam! The scientists came up >> with genetic research that led them to calculate the size a first man >> would have to be if the story was true. They came up with 90 feet!! >> Note that 1400 years before these learned men came to this conclusion, >> the Prophet (peace be upon him) said something similar: >> >> The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When >> He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and >> listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and >> the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the >> angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, >> "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be >> upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, >> 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble >> Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature >> since Adam's creation." Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu >> Huraira. >> >> >> Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through >> divine revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was >> 90 feet tall when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got >> smaller as life went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and >> his companions (May Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the >> effect known as "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have >> genetic exchanges that are too closely related? > > So when I get to Paradise and get my 21 virgins I'm like 90 feet tall > and have a 9 foot schlong? Ouch!!! I think you have to fly an airplane into a building to get the virgins. If you die "normally", you just get an old hag with tattoos and yellow teeth. -- Mark A > this space intentionally left blank < " Jeff Laventure" > "Paul" > news:abdqkl$hoa98$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Abdullah" > > news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When > He > > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and > listen > > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the > greeting > > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), > As-Salamu > > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the > angels > > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any > person > > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through > divine > > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet > tall > > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as > life > > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions > (May > > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges > that > > > are too closely related? > > > > > > > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL > > Taditional science has determined man has been getting taller, not shorter. > > > > Only lately, and that's probably not genetic. I'm sure that a paleontologist will correct me if I'm wrong, but our paleolithic ancestors - pre-agriculture - were often 6' for adult males. These folks were sometimes eaten by sabertooths, but they were typically well-nourished and extremely fit. Neither am I a geneticist, but why the heck would a hypothetical first human pair have to be giants? More DNA information requires a bigger body? I guess every culture has their own brand of goofiness. "Alan Barclay" news:1020987187.472256@elaine.furryape.com... > In article wrote: > >I'm thinking more along the lines of steps, door widths and ceiling heights. > > > >Older castles in britain are actually difficult for an average person to > > If _you_ had to make the castle, then you'd make it as small as possible > too. All that stone isn't light. > Ehh... No... Big castle.. Small steps.... Low ceilings.. Tight passageways that you have to bend down to go through... Yeah, *some* of this is due to defensive needs and heating needs... However old Spanish missions in the US have the same traits.. Also you can see many examples of medieval clothing *and* armour etc... The average height was lots lower that it is now... "Derek Stevenson" news:abef9l$hcp7t$1@ID-139629.news.dfncis.de... > "Paul" > news:abed11$hc2vo$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > " Jeff Laventure" > > news:ScyC8.397$Cn7.58503452@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > > > "Paul" > > > news:abdqkl$hoa98$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL > > > > > > Taditional science has determined man has been getting taller, not > > shorter. > > > > As is obvious if you should ever tour a medieval castle... Or even look > at > > US civil war uniforms... > > > > Or have *any* knowledge whatsoever of archaeology... > > Actually, the trend isn't as clear-cut as that. *Average* heights haven't > changed that dramatically. Keep in mind that the armour in museums and > castles is missing many of the straps, fasteners and other accoutrements > that it would have had when actually worn. > I'm thinking more along the lines of steps, door widths and ceiling heights. Older castles in britain are actually difficult for an average person to move around due to the changes... Some of the oldest pubs that are >600 or so years, have *very* short ceilings.... There were obviously exceptions then... Henry VIII was a large man by todays standards... However in any case, we have *no* archaelogical evidence that people were >8' tall much less 50' in the past... Or that they underwent a "shrinking" process... " Jeff Laventure" news:ScyC8.397$Cn7.58503452@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > > "Paul" > news:abdqkl$hoa98$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Abdullah" > > news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When > He > > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and > > listen > > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the > greeting > > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), > As-Salamu > > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the > > angels > > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any > person > > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through > divine > > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet > > tall > > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as > life > > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions > (May > > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges > that > > > are too closely related? > > > > > > > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL > > Taditional science has determined man has been getting taller, not shorter. > > As is obvious if you should ever tour a medieval castle... Or even look at US civil war uniforms... Or have *any* knowledge whatsoever of archaeology... "Paul" news:abdqkl$hoa98$1@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de... > > "Abdullah" > news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... > > > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and > listen > > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the > angels > > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet > tall > > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > > are too closely related? > > > > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL Taditional science has determined man has been getting taller, not shorter. > > "Abdullah" news:abdci4$hbmes$1@ID-31123.news.dfncis.de... > > The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He > created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen > to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting > (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu > Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa > Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels > added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person > who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). > People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, > Book 55, Number 543 , Narrated Abu Huraira. > > > Two cubits is a yard, so one cubit is a foot and a half. So through divine > revelation, the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that Adam was 90 feet tall > when he was created! It is a belief of Islam that man got smaller as life > went on. How did the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (May > Allah Almighty be pleased with them) know about the effect known as > "bottleneck," where animals get weaker if they have genetic exchanges that > are too closely related? > > Muslim "science" is *truly* amazing...... LOL |