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	<title>Comments on: Hey look, more creationist dishonesty!</title>
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	<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/</link>
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		<title>By: edc</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-61318</link>
		<dc:creator>edc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-61318</guid>
		<description>hey look! more atheist lies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey look! more atheist lies!</p>
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		<title>By: Help expose Expelled &#124; Cyde Weys Musings</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-22241</link>
		<dc:creator>Help expose Expelled &#124; Cyde Weys Musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-22241</guid>
		<description>[...] if you don&#8217;t quite know what I&#8217;m talking about, reading up on some more background information might be in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] if you don&#8217;t quite know what I&#8217;m talking about, reading up on some more background information might be in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21472</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21472</guid>
		<description>drinian: Oh, I won&#039;t argue that I&#039;m ranting, and yes, I am kind of preaching to the choir here on this blog (uhh, except for Jordan Mills I guess, but he&#039;s gone now anyway).  I&#039;ve long since decided against trying to convince anyone with this stuff, because religion is so deeply rooted that merely reading an argument against it online won&#039;t do anything.  So yes, I do end up writing rants, but only because they&#039;re such fun!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>drinian: Oh, I won&#8217;t argue that I&#8217;m ranting, and yes, I am kind of preaching to the choir here on this blog (uhh, except for Jordan Mills I guess, but he&#8217;s gone now anyway).  I&#8217;ve long since decided against trying to convince anyone with this stuff, because religion is so deeply rooted that merely reading an argument against it online won&#8217;t do anything.  So yes, I do end up writing rants, but only because they&#8217;re such fun!</p>
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		<title>By: drinian</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21465</link>
		<dc:creator>drinian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21465</guid>
		<description>In all honesty, as hard as it may be to remain calm in the face of Discovery Institute insanity, your mode of writing and use of loaded speech lends itself to being called a &quot;rant.&quot; And rants are rarely received well by those who don&#039;t already agree with their points. Brush up on your rhetoric; it is something of a perennial &quot;lost art.&quot;

On the other hand, that last quote sounds quite a bit like a threat towards Meyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all honesty, as hard as it may be to remain calm in the face of Discovery Institute insanity, your mode of writing and use of loaded speech lends itself to being called a &#8220;rant.&#8221; And rants are rarely received well by those who don&#8217;t already agree with their points. Brush up on your rhetoric; it is something of a perennial &#8220;lost art.&#8221;</p>
<p>On the other hand, that last quote sounds quite a bit like a threat towards Meyers.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21461</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21461</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, we do need to teach people about the four Aristotelian elements, and all those other odd now-discredited theories.  They form an important part of our history, and if taught properly can help students to understand how science came to be science.

One of the things I&#039;ve found interesting in watching Discovery Channel stuff is that the ancient Greek priests clearly knew that many of their religious gimmicks were just that.  At the same time, they also furthered both the scientific and the technical arts.  It reminds me of Granny Weatherwax and the admonition that you have to tell people a story that they&#039;ll believe if you want them to do what they need to do.  (You should read Pratchett, if you haven&#039;t.)  A lot of the &quot;inner mysteries&quot; of many religions is the revelation that it&#039;s all a load of hooey and here&#039;s the real science behind what we do.  

The modern world has taken away the mask and made science accessible to the masses.  The problem is that the masses don&#039;t want that complexity; they want simple instructions that they can follow without having to think a whole lot.  In short, they want priests to tell them what to do, not advice on how to figure it out themselves.  Scientists hurt themselves even more here because they constantly express doubt, while the priests never do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, we do need to teach people about the four Aristotelian elements, and all those other odd now-discredited theories.  They form an important part of our history, and if taught properly can help students to understand how science came to be science.</p>
<p>One of the things I&#8217;ve found interesting in watching Discovery Channel stuff is that the ancient Greek priests clearly knew that many of their religious gimmicks were just that.  At the same time, they also furthered both the scientific and the technical arts.  It reminds me of Granny Weatherwax and the admonition that you have to tell people a story that they&#8217;ll believe if you want them to do what they need to do.  (You should read Pratchett, if you haven&#8217;t.)  A lot of the &#8220;inner mysteries&#8221; of many religions is the revelation that it&#8217;s all a load of hooey and here&#8217;s the real science behind what we do.  </p>
<p>The modern world has taken away the mask and made science accessible to the masses.  The problem is that the masses don&#8217;t want that complexity; they want simple instructions that they can follow without having to think a whole lot.  In short, they want priests to tell them what to do, not advice on how to figure it out themselves.  Scientists hurt themselves even more here because they constantly express doubt, while the priests never do.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21455</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21455</guid>
		<description>Jeff: His definition of bias is someone who disagrees with him.  Obviously, someone who agrees with him isn&#039;t biased, they&#039;re speaking the truth.

Thinking back on the original comment, what we&#039;re looking at is another common creationist tactic: the fallacy of false equivalence.  Since there are two &quot;competing theories&quot; at work here, it&#039;s completely unfair to dismiss one out of hand (the thinking goes).  I&#039;m &quot;biased&quot; because I&#039;m not giving equal weight to whatever other alternatives to evolution woo-woo thinkers come up with.

Of course, this isn&#039;t how argumentation works, and it sure as hell isn&#039;t how science works.  Generally there&#039;s only one truth, but an infinite number of possible false variants.  Should we give equal time in Chemistry class to the four fundamental Aristotelian elements of earth, wind, water, and fire versus the Periodic Table of the Elements?  Should we give equal time in Physics class to the notion that objects fall because all objects want to be at rest versus the theory of gravity and Newton&#039;s Laws?  Should we give equal time in Astronomy class to geocentrism versus a much more nuanced view of the universe in which not only isn&#039;t the Earth the center, nor is the Sun, but that there is no center at all because space-time itself is expanding?

Hell no!  Why do you expect me to give equal weight to superstitious nonsense that was disproved hundreds of years ago?!  It&#039;s only because you&#039;re so incredibly ignorant that you would ever even demand such a thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: His definition of bias is someone who disagrees with him.  Obviously, someone who agrees with him isn&#8217;t biased, they&#8217;re speaking the truth.</p>
<p>Thinking back on the original comment, what we&#8217;re looking at is another common creationist tactic: the fallacy of false equivalence.  Since there are two &#8220;competing theories&#8221; at work here, it&#8217;s completely unfair to dismiss one out of hand (the thinking goes).  I&#8217;m &#8220;biased&#8221; because I&#8217;m not giving equal weight to whatever other alternatives to evolution woo-woo thinkers come up with.</p>
<p>Of course, this isn&#8217;t how argumentation works, and it sure as hell isn&#8217;t how science works.  Generally there&#8217;s only one truth, but an infinite number of possible false variants.  Should we give equal time in Chemistry class to the four fundamental Aristotelian elements of earth, wind, water, and fire versus the Periodic Table of the Elements?  Should we give equal time in Physics class to the notion that objects fall because all objects want to be at rest versus the theory of gravity and Newton&#8217;s Laws?  Should we give equal time in Astronomy class to geocentrism versus a much more nuanced view of the universe in which not only isn&#8217;t the Earth the center, nor is the Sun, but that there is no center at all because space-time itself is expanding?</p>
<p>Hell no!  Why do you expect me to give equal weight to superstitious nonsense that was disproved hundreds of years ago?!  It&#8217;s only because you&#8217;re so incredibly ignorant that you would ever even demand such a thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Wintermute</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21453</link>
		<dc:creator>Wintermute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21453</guid>
		<description>The blog is called &quot;Cyde Weys Musings,&quot; one shouldn&#039;t expect an opinion contrary to the blog author&#039;s. Maybe Jordan Mills should find a blog called &quot;Someone other than Cyde Weys Musings.&quot; Or, better still, since the internets are full of &quot;rants&quot; and &quot;blatant bias,&quot; one can only hope that Jordan Mills has left the Internet completely. 

&#039;mute</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The blog is called &#8220;Cyde Weys Musings,&#8221; one shouldn&#8217;t expect an opinion contrary to the blog author&#8217;s. Maybe Jordan Mills should find a blog called &#8220;Someone other than Cyde Weys Musings.&#8221; Or, better still, since the internets are full of &#8220;rants&#8221; and &#8220;blatant bias,&#8221; one can only hope that Jordan Mills has left the Internet completely. </p>
<p>&#8216;mute</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff V</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21449</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21449</guid>
		<description>Is it even possible to accuse someone of bias when they ar writing an OPINION post? 

&quot;I sure hate all those bias editorialist out there&quot;

Doesn&#039;t that sound stupid...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it even possible to accuse someone of bias when they ar writing an OPINION post? </p>
<p>&#8220;I sure hate all those bias editorialist out there&#8221;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t that sound stupid&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21442</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21442</guid>
		<description>I would not take people like &quot;Jordan Mills&quot; seriously in this kind of context. It is very likely (not certain, but likely) that posters like that come to your blog simply because you offend them (most likely they were referred here by others who agree with them), and they decide to pose as regular readers leaving in order to get you to change your viewpoints.

In other words, they are attempting to play on your ego. By giving you the impression that your views are unpopular, they hope to make you change your opinions (or at least the way you express them).

This kind of tactic is very common on the internet in general, regardless of subject. Don&#039;t fall for it. Not that I think you would :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not take people like &#8220;Jordan Mills&#8221; seriously in this kind of context. It is very likely (not certain, but likely) that posters like that come to your blog simply because you offend them (most likely they were referred here by others who agree with them), and they decide to pose as regular readers leaving in order to get you to change your viewpoints.</p>
<p>In other words, they are attempting to play on your ego. By giving you the impression that your views are unpopular, they hope to make you change your opinions (or at least the way you express them).</p>
<p>This kind of tactic is very common on the internet in general, regardless of subject. Don&#8217;t fall for it. Not that I think you would :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21428</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21428</guid>
		<description>Sorry, who the hell are you again?  You just showed up one day on another evolution post, and now it looks like you&#039;re gone.  Why do you feel like I need to cater to your interests and defer to your delicate sensibilities?

Incidentally, is it really so hard for you to accept simple truths of the universe that you&#039;d rather take your ball and go home?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, who the hell are you again?  You just showed up one day on another evolution post, and now it looks like you&#8217;re gone.  Why do you feel like I need to cater to your interests and defer to your delicate sensibilities?</p>
<p>Incidentally, is it really so hard for you to accept simple truths of the universe that you&#8217;d rather take your ball and go home?</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Mills</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/04/08/more-creationist-dishonesty/comment-page-1/#comment-21426</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=737#comment-21426</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s about all the ranting and blatant bias I can take from your feed.  Bye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s about all the ranting and blatant bias I can take from your feed.  Bye.</p>
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