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	<title>Comments on: How beliefs linger after faith is gone: My tale as a kosher atheist</title>
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	<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/</link>
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		<title>By: User links about "explanations" on iLinkShare</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-82371</link>
		<dc:creator>User links about "explanations" on iLinkShare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-82371</guid>
		<description>[...] 27 days ago6 votesThoughts on the Rick Warren Forum&gt;&gt; saved by vingon15 33 days ago4 votesComment on How beliefs linger after faith is gone: My tale as a...&gt;&gt; saved by marx 34 days ago1 votesRedwood Explanations&gt;&gt; saved by Thyrael 36 days ago5 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 27 days ago6 votesThoughts on the Rick Warren Forum&gt;&gt; saved by vingon15 33 days ago4 votesComment on How beliefs linger after faith is gone: My tale as a&#8230;&gt;&gt; saved by marx 34 days ago1 votesRedwood Explanations&gt;&gt; saved by Thyrael 36 days ago5 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Websites tagged "rules" on Postsaver</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-76494</link>
		<dc:creator>Websites tagged "rules" on Postsaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-76494</guid>
		<description>[...] - Comment on How beliefs linger after faith is gone: My tale as a... saved by omifan922009-01-18 - The Godfather II for February 2009 saved by birdsnare2009-01-09 - Cue [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; Comment on How beliefs linger after faith is gone: My tale as a&#8230; saved by omifan922009-01-18 &#8211; The Godfather II for February 2009 saved by birdsnare2009-01-09 &#8211; Cue [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Knacker</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54828</link>
		<dc:creator>Knacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54828</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a matter of degree.  There are christians who fully believe but never go to church or even think religiously until sunday.  Even thought I am given to thinking about crazy stuff, I too am mostly rational.  The point of religion is that it&#039;s something you pull out of your hat when you need it, and put it back when you don&#039;t...  Like alcohol or marijuana.  And some people just can&#039;t control themselves with it.

In fact, comparing it to a drug really fits my entire point...  And fits what you&#039;re saying about WOW nicely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not a matter of degree.  There are christians who fully believe but never go to church or even think religiously until sunday.  Even thought I am given to thinking about crazy stuff, I too am mostly rational.  The point of religion is that it&#8217;s something you pull out of your hat when you need it, and put it back when you don&#8217;t&#8230;  Like alcohol or marijuana.  And some people just can&#8217;t control themselves with it.</p>
<p>In fact, comparing it to a drug really fits my entire point&#8230;  And fits what you&#8217;re saying about WOW nicely.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54628</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54628</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with the argument that people need something to replace religion with.  Religion isn&#039;t that important.  If you&#039;ve been brainwashed with it your whole life, then yes, it is a big deal to you &#8212; but if you haven&#039;t, then it isn&#039;t, and there isn&#039;t necessarily anything else in your life that has to replace it.  Allow me to draw an analogy, if you will.  There are lots of people who are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2007/09/13/world-of-no-regret-craft/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hugely addicted to World of Warcraft&lt;/a&gt;.  I&#039;m talking about spending as much time playing it per week as others do on their full time job.  This is a larger time investment than religion is for all but monks, priests, and nuns, most likely.  Why, then, do you not posit that anyone who doesn&#039;t play WoW must have some other activity in their life that merits a similar level of devotion?

The obvious answer is &quot;religion is different than World of Warcraft&quot;, but for someone who&#039;s been outside the fold of religion their entire life, this isn&#039;t a convincing argument.  If you never held religion sacrosanct to begin with, you just view it as one of those foreign things that &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; people spend lots of their time on, like World of Warcraft, rooting for professional sports teams, whatever.

Does this make sense?  Perhaps the description of my fascination with the future is a bit overwrought in this blog post, but I can assure you it&#039;s nothing close to what I imagine the single-minded devotion of the devout to their religion is like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the argument that people need something to replace religion with.  Religion isn&#8217;t that important.  If you&#8217;ve been brainwashed with it your whole life, then yes, it is a big deal to you &mdash; but if you haven&#8217;t, then it isn&#8217;t, and there isn&#8217;t necessarily anything else in your life that has to replace it.  Allow me to draw an analogy, if you will.  There are lots of people who are <a href="http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2007/09/13/world-of-no-regret-craft/" rel="nofollow">hugely addicted to World of Warcraft</a>.  I&#8217;m talking about spending as much time playing it per week as others do on their full time job.  This is a larger time investment than religion is for all but monks, priests, and nuns, most likely.  Why, then, do you not posit that anyone who doesn&#8217;t play WoW must have some other activity in their life that merits a similar level of devotion?</p>
<p>The obvious answer is &#8220;religion is different than World of Warcraft&#8221;, but for someone who&#8217;s been outside the fold of religion their entire life, this isn&#8217;t a convincing argument.  If you never held religion sacrosanct to begin with, you just view it as one of those foreign things that <em>other</em> people spend lots of their time on, like World of Warcraft, rooting for professional sports teams, whatever.</p>
<p>Does this make sense?  Perhaps the description of my fascination with the future is a bit overwrought in this blog post, but I can assure you it&#8217;s nothing close to what I imagine the single-minded devotion of the devout to their religion is like.</p>
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		<title>By: Knacker</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54616</link>
		<dc:creator>Knacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54616</guid>
		<description>Thank you for welcoming me. I have a website, I&#039;m just not ready to share it with you all yet.  I guess I&#039;ll use a throwaway e-mail too;  I can always just abandon it if anything I don&#039;t like comes through.

Anyway, my point is not that everyone will express this built-in tendency towards religion through animism, but that no matter what, people have a dependency on it.  For you, for example, I&#039;d say your replacement for religion is probably your anticipation of the technological future...  but that&#039;s just a guess.  It&#039;s not meant to devalue it or anything, or indirectly imply that you&#039;re a hypocrite for having something filling the role in your brain while you rail against it.  I mean, Einstein&#039;s work came from what he replaced religion in himself with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for welcoming me. I have a website, I&#8217;m just not ready to share it with you all yet.  I guess I&#8217;ll use a throwaway e-mail too;  I can always just abandon it if anything I don&#8217;t like comes through.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is not that everyone will express this built-in tendency towards religion through animism, but that no matter what, people have a dependency on it.  For you, for example, I&#8217;d say your replacement for religion is probably your anticipation of the technological future&#8230;  but that&#8217;s just a guess.  It&#8217;s not meant to devalue it or anything, or indirectly imply that you&#8217;re a hypocrite for having something filling the role in your brain while you rail against it.  I mean, Einstein&#8217;s work came from what he replaced religion in himself with.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54575</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54575</guid>
		<description>Interesting story Knacker.  I can&#039;t say I&#039;ve experienced the same kind of thing though.  I&#039;ve always been very rational/scientific-minded, so I&#039;ve never had animistic tendencies.  There are all sorts of superstitious beliefs built into the human condition through evolution because it&#039;s best to avoid doing things that are bad even if you don&#039;t know why.  For the most part, I surpass them, not give into them.

Also, I see you&#039;ve been commenting a bit lately, so welcome to the blog.  Regarding your comments, though: the URL field is entirely optional.  Seeing as how you don&#039;t have a website, you should just leave that field blank.  It&#039;ll save you some time and it also won&#039;t display a junk hyperlink on your comment.  Also, you should probably use a real email address.  I don&#039;t harvest them in any way &#8212; what they are used for is the spam filter, which you keep getting caught in because of gibberish email addresses.  There&#039;s also a per-email karma system, so regular commenters never get caught while first-time commenters sometimes do.  Just something to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting story Knacker.  I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve experienced the same kind of thing though.  I&#8217;ve always been very rational/scientific-minded, so I&#8217;ve never had animistic tendencies.  There are all sorts of superstitious beliefs built into the human condition through evolution because it&#8217;s best to avoid doing things that are bad even if you don&#8217;t know why.  For the most part, I surpass them, not give into them.</p>
<p>Also, I see you&#8217;ve been commenting a bit lately, so welcome to the blog.  Regarding your comments, though: the URL field is entirely optional.  Seeing as how you don&#8217;t have a website, you should just leave that field blank.  It&#8217;ll save you some time and it also won&#8217;t display a junk hyperlink on your comment.  Also, you should probably use a real email address.  I don&#8217;t harvest them in any way &mdash; what they are used for is the spam filter, which you keep getting caught in because of gibberish email addresses.  There&#8217;s also a per-email karma system, so regular commenters never get caught while first-time commenters sometimes do.  Just something to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: Knacker</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54572</link>
		<dc:creator>Knacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54572</guid>
		<description>I have also considered that I may be a mild synasthete with low-grade schizophrenia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have also considered that I may be a mild synasthete with low-grade schizophrenia.</p>
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		<title>By: Knacker</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-54571</link>
		<dc:creator>Knacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-54571</guid>
		<description>Of all the things a person can resent their parents about, I guess I&#039;m lucky religion was not one of them.  I had no religion at all growing up.  My parents were atheists, and so until I was about 18 I never even thought about it.  Until through conversations with friends, who professed no belief in god, told me they still felt the need to go to church every now and then...  to feel clean going through life.  Seemed completely ridiculous to me.  I mean, if you asked me now, or at any time in my life, I&#039;d tell you straight up, I&#039;m an atheist.  God doesn&#039;t exist, it&#039;s a lie that they tell you to get you to put money in the collection plate every sunday.  But...  Even I&#039;m not immune.  

I realized that being raised without any sort of religion, my mind has filled the vacuum.  All kinds of examples where I&#039;d actually find that I was personifying objects, and believing, for example, that a victorian-era-looking illustration of a duck painted on this old shelf clock was watching over me, like what Catholics must feel from their various saints.  I believed my toys could feel neglected or unliked, and would try to be &#039;fair&#039; to them, playing with all of them equal time even if I had favorites. Giving up my first car when it broke down was significant because it seemed to me like a real creature. I think of my computer an obnoxious surfer dude who doesn&#039;t know anything, who I have to pound into submission to get working.  I see, even though I know it&#039;s ridiculous, spirits out in the woods that walk around... in the grass, in rivers, in gravel roads.  I feel the accumulated relief of hundreds of weary travellers in particularly comfortable hotel rooms.

I don&#039;t go around saying I&#039;m an animist, and it never even gets encoded into words unless I analyze myself and my behaviors afterward. I&#039;ve come to see it as a rather amusing and neat aspect of my brain, linking me to the more primitive past.  And even though it makes no sense, I like having these feelings.  That&#039;s probably why it&#039;s so hard for you to get rid of your original religion.  You believe it&#039;s something extra, something brainwashed into you by your parents and your society.  It&#039;s as much a part of you as breathing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of all the things a person can resent their parents about, I guess I&#8217;m lucky religion was not one of them.  I had no religion at all growing up.  My parents were atheists, and so until I was about 18 I never even thought about it.  Until through conversations with friends, who professed no belief in god, told me they still felt the need to go to church every now and then&#8230;  to feel clean going through life.  Seemed completely ridiculous to me.  I mean, if you asked me now, or at any time in my life, I&#8217;d tell you straight up, I&#8217;m an atheist.  God doesn&#8217;t exist, it&#8217;s a lie that they tell you to get you to put money in the collection plate every sunday.  But&#8230;  Even I&#8217;m not immune.  </p>
<p>I realized that being raised without any sort of religion, my mind has filled the vacuum.  All kinds of examples where I&#8217;d actually find that I was personifying objects, and believing, for example, that a victorian-era-looking illustration of a duck painted on this old shelf clock was watching over me, like what Catholics must feel from their various saints.  I believed my toys could feel neglected or unliked, and would try to be &#8216;fair&#8217; to them, playing with all of them equal time even if I had favorites. Giving up my first car when it broke down was significant because it seemed to me like a real creature. I think of my computer an obnoxious surfer dude who doesn&#8217;t know anything, who I have to pound into submission to get working.  I see, even though I know it&#8217;s ridiculous, spirits out in the woods that walk around&#8230; in the grass, in rivers, in gravel roads.  I feel the accumulated relief of hundreds of weary travellers in particularly comfortable hotel rooms.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t go around saying I&#8217;m an animist, and it never even gets encoded into words unless I analyze myself and my behaviors afterward. I&#8217;ve come to see it as a rather amusing and neat aspect of my brain, linking me to the more primitive past.  And even though it makes no sense, I like having these feelings.  That&#8217;s probably why it&#8217;s so hard for you to get rid of your original religion.  You believe it&#8217;s something extra, something brainwashed into you by your parents and your society.  It&#8217;s as much a part of you as breathing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff V</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-38007</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-38007</guid>
		<description>I wish I didn&#039;t grow up with the notion that being anything other than Christian doomed one to an eternity of torment.

That&#039;d be nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I didn&#8217;t grow up with the notion that being anything other than Christian doomed one to an eternity of torment.</p>
<p>That&#8217;d be nice.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-37499</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-37499</guid>
		<description>Andrew, you make a great point that I hadn&#039;t even considered.  Of course, taste in food has a biological basis.  Children can&#039;t be expected to understand explanations on why or why not to eat certain foods, so like everything else their parents teach them at their age, they take it on faith.  Richard Dawkins points out that this is how, by and large, religion is propagated: brainwash children with it when they&#039;re still in the &quot;accept everything that my parents tell me&quot; stage of development.  So keeping kosher persists in the same way.

And then, kosher actually becomes &quot;evidence&quot; of the religion that believers can point at.  If a whole group of people are arbitrarily eating some animals but not others, and the only reason offered up is religion, then that makes the religion seem powerful and relevant, when all the kosher rules really are is a biologically-incentivized propagation of memes.  But it&#039;s not as if we didn&#039;t already know that religion is the biggest scam ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, you make a great point that I hadn&#8217;t even considered.  Of course, taste in food has a biological basis.  Children can&#8217;t be expected to understand explanations on why or why not to eat certain foods, so like everything else their parents teach them at their age, they take it on faith.  Richard Dawkins points out that this is how, by and large, religion is propagated: brainwash children with it when they&#8217;re still in the &#8220;accept everything that my parents tell me&#8221; stage of development.  So keeping kosher persists in the same way.</p>
<p>And then, kosher actually becomes &#8220;evidence&#8221; of the religion that believers can point at.  If a whole group of people are arbitrarily eating some animals but not others, and the only reason offered up is religion, then that makes the religion seem powerful and relevant, when all the kosher rules really are is a biologically-incentivized propagation of memes.  But it&#8217;s not as if we didn&#8217;t already know that religion is the biggest scam ever.</p>
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		<title>By: arensb</title>
		<link>http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/2008/08/07/kosher-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-37115</link>
		<dc:creator>arensb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/?p=902#comment-37115</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And don’t even get me started on acupuncture or chiropracty.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then don&#039;t google &quot;digital homeopathy&quot;, or you may weep openly.

The pork thing makes a certain amount of sense: our species evolved in an environment where some foods were good to eat, and others would kill you. So children need to learn from their parents which foods to eat and which ones to avoid (apparently this is related to the way toddlers get really picky about their food). At any rate, according to Steven Pinker, food &lt;i&gt;ick&lt;/i&gt;s are the hardest to get rid of.

Other than that, I like the house of cards analogy: many elements of your personality or &quot;culture&quot; or whatever you want to call it are based, directly or indirectly on religion. But since the whole thing continues to work, so there&#039;s no life crisis that you have to deal with; you can just adjust things as you notice them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And don’t even get me started on acupuncture or chiropracty.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then don&#8217;t google &#8220;digital homeopathy&#8221;, or you may weep openly.</p>
<p>The pork thing makes a certain amount of sense: our species evolved in an environment where some foods were good to eat, and others would kill you. So children need to learn from their parents which foods to eat and which ones to avoid (apparently this is related to the way toddlers get really picky about their food). At any rate, according to Steven Pinker, food <i>ick</i>s are the hardest to get rid of.</p>
<p>Other than that, I like the house of cards analogy: many elements of your personality or &#8220;culture&#8221; or whatever you want to call it are based, directly or indirectly on religion. But since the whole thing continues to work, so there&#8217;s no life crisis that you have to deal with; you can just adjust things as you notice them.</p>
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